« Week 7 Picks…. | Home | Crazy Sport »
Hines Ward crushes Keith Rivers. Is he getting fined?
By Dagger | October 19, 2008
Keith Rivers broke his jaw on the play and is out for the remainder of the season. Ward has been fined $15,000 over the past week for “unnecessary roughness”. So what do you think of this hit? It looks clean to me but could the NFL call Ward for any of the following:
1. Hitting with the crown of the helmet (maybe helmet on jaw?….looks like a shoulder to me though…)
2. Not seen in this clip but Ward celebrates a little after the hit.
*Remember that one of the fines Ward received last week was due to his “post-play celebration” after a hit/block.
I really don’t see a fine coming but some people out there are calling this hit dirty, saying Ward hit Rivers in the jaw with the crown of his helmet, showed intent to injure, and celebrated after the play. If Goodell and the NFL really want to punish Ward they could even go so far as suspending him for a game.
Quotes from Ward per this espn article:
“I’m not going to wait around until you hit me,” Ward said. “It was a clean hit. I didn’t get penalized for it.”
“I’m not doing anything illegal; it was a clean hit,” Ward said. “I didn’t stand over the guy or anything. … We’ll see. I’m not going to change my ways. If they’re going to keep fining me for that, then I’m going to get fined all year.”
Bengals LB Brandon Johnson:
“No flag came out because it wasn’t a quarterback,” Johnson said. “If he was a quarterback, then they definitely would have thrown the flag. If it was a receiver, they definitely would have thrown the flag. It’s just something that comes with playing defense. If you play defense, then you’re pretty much expendable, I guess.
“It’s part of the game. It was a good block. If I was in Hines Ward’s shoes, I probably would have taken the same shot. You can’t really blame him.”
Bengals safety Ndukwe:
“That’s what he’s known for,” Bengals safety Chinedum Ndukwe said. “You expect that coming in. People are going to take their shots when they can. Too bad he can’t hit someone face up. It’s too bad he has to wait until he’s not looking to get him. It’s unfortunate. It’s the type of guy he is. That’s all right. We play them again. He’s a blind-side guy.”
In response to Ndukwe’s comments…..Hines Ward is widely regarded as the best blocking WR in the NFL for his “regular blocks” not just his de-cleaters. Watch any play that goes beyond 5 yard and Ward is there facemask-to-facemask with a LB/CB/S helping to extend the run. So, no, he doesn’t “wait until somebody isn’t looking” he’s ALWAYS blocking. He blocks facemask to facemask 50 plays per game and once a week he’ll get somebody on the edge unexpectedly (Ed Reed, Keith Rivers, Bart Scott, etc…)
Topics: Hines Ward, Steelers | 36 Comments »
October 19th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
he appeared (in all angles i saw during the game). to make contact shoulder to shoulder. it’s a totally legal hit.
there will be controversy whether or not he gets fined. those that hate hines ward will feel this is dirty (more because of the result of the hit, not the hit itself) and get mad if there is no fine. others will feel like there is no reason for a fine on a legal hit. guys get hurt all the time on legal hits.
most of the controversy surrounding this is because hines ward was in the news this past week for unspecified “unnecessary roughness” fines that were not penalized during his previous 2 games.
October 19th, 2008 at 10:14 pm
As long as he didn’t lead with his helmet I don’t see how he could be fined.
October 19th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
Upon closer inspection I can see that Hines may have lead with his helmet. If you pause the video at impact you can see Rivers head snap back. His jaw was broken which makes you think he was hit with something other than a shoulder. A view from the sideline would show a better angle.
If he lead with his helmet I bet Hines gets a 1 game suspension and a big fine.
October 19th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
i was at the game and i first thought it might be a block in the back, but wasnt surprised that there was no flag thrown. when i first watched the replay it looked like hines led with his shoulder. but after watching it several times in slow mo, the snap of keiths head and the angle of wards, he led with his helmet and deserves a major fine. nothing will be done though, goodell has already shown they can get away with cheap shots to the bengals. just ask levi jones…
October 19th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
He’ll probably get fined even though I think it was a clean hit.
Ray Lewis breaks Mendenhall’s shoulder and everybody (fans, media, etc.) says how great Ray Ray is and “Welcome to the NFL, rookie”.
Hines breaks River’s jaw and all of a sudden he is a dirty player. Go figure.
October 19th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Dusty-
the Steelers were fined like 50k last week alone for off and on the field behavior….Goodell won’t let the steelers get away with anything.
October 20th, 2008 at 3:10 am
I don’t want to see watered down pussy football but if Ward led with his helmet he deserves the big fine and the suspension. Its not like he was trying to make a play, Rivers wasn’t dreaming of making that tackle. Ward was taking his shot, which is great, just don’t do something dirty like the helmet shot. Especially when you had the time to make the decision to do it or not, sometimes the helmet hits just happen by accident in the spur of the moment. This was not one of those times.
I love Hines Ward but he crossed the line from tough to dirty on this play, if he indeed led with the helmet.
October 20th, 2008 at 6:54 am
I would hate for players to wear skirts or whatever, but if players are going to be fined for illegal or dangerous play SOMETIMES, then its no wonder that dangerous and illegal hits have gone on for years! Maybe hines was the straw that broke the camels back?!?
Goodell and the NFL should develop a clear comprehensible policy on what is legal, illegal and what will draw a fine. I am a huge hines fan, but if he endangered a layer beyond necessary means than he deserves to be held accountable ACCORDING TO POLICY AND PROCEDURES OF THE NFL.
To review the tapes and issue fines for some dangerous plays or cheap shots and ignore others will not increase the safety for players or decrease the dangerous on field play. For example, when shaun rodgers knocked big ben down after the throw earlier this season he drew no foul, yet it was clearly a late hit and clearly a dangerous play. The league (to my knowledge) said nothing about the play. If goodell wants to have an impact on the NFL he will first need to be consistent. And to be consistent he will need a policy to work with. Singling one or two plays out will have no effect on the dangerousness of the NFL. AS evidence in this video, there has been no discernible difference from last weeks danger level to this weeks danger level.
I think the real problem is that Goodell can’t control what happens in the NFL. He just doesnt have the managerial skills to do it. I have to wonder if he is the right guy to protect the players on the field.
October 20th, 2008 at 6:58 am
It was a clean hit, anything less would have meant that he compromised not only his integrity, but his philosophy on the game. It’s sad that times are changing so drastically that this is even a topic of interest. 30 years ago we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. Hines Ward should be used as an example of how the game should be played, he is a Football icon and sure Hall-of-Famer. It was a clean hit, end of conversation…welcome to Steelers Football.
October 20th, 2008 at 8:36 am
I think it was a clean hit. He didn’t lauch himself and leave his feet. Ward did hit him with his shoulder like alot of players are taught. It looks like Ward’s helmet hit his jaw area at the same time his shoulder pad hit underneath River’s shoulder pad. This is not a block in the back. I know alot of people that have played football at various levels and they love the oppurtunity to blindside a guy on a block, its part of the game, and I think Rivers knows that. Ward was most definitly making a play and Hines does not have time to stop and think about whether or not Rivers can make that tackle. It sure as heck looks like he could have made that tackle to me. The broken jaw is a result of the angle at which Rivers was running and Ward was running, they kind of met at a 90 degree angle where Ward helmet got under River’s helmet. It he is suspended or fined for this it would be a real shame.
October 20th, 2008 at 8:39 am
Nolan,
I don’t think it’s “sad” that “this is even a topic of interest.” It just means that we’re more aware of the long-term medical consequences of a career in football, and some of us care a little bit about the wellbeing of the people who provide us with this wonderful form of entertainment — so we want to ensure their safety a little bit. Yes, football is a violent game, but taking some precautions so that it’s not a guaranteed road to having a 90-year-old’s body by the age of 50 isn’t a bad thing.
October 20th, 2008 at 9:20 am
Everyone that steps foot on the football field knows that risks that come with it. Injuries are part of the game and part of the reason players get payed so much money, they put their bodies’ on the line. Jeremy, where do you draw the line on “some precautions” though?…And how many more “precautions” do you want to have in MMA? In boxing? In rugby? In hockey? All of which are sports that can cause serious bodily harm and serious injuries to the participants. Getting seriously hurt playing professional football and being surprised about it, would be like smoking for 35 years and then being surprised when you got lung cancer.
October 20th, 2008 at 9:31 am
For those thinking just because Rivers head snapped that it was a helmet lead hit isn’t looking at the big picture.
The initial contact was shoulder to shoulder, if you get hit on the left shoulder, your body moves right and guess what, your head moves LEFT (towards Ward’s head).
If Hines doesn’t tuck his chin, he takes Rivers helmet to the facemask, possibly snapping his head back.
Clean and well executed block.
October 20th, 2008 at 9:41 am
1 point
Please login to rate.
Do you already have an account? Log in and claim this comment.
Helmet to helmet hit? Hines Ward clearly comes in with his right shoulder and levels Keith Rivers with a jolting legal blow. Rivers is 2 inches taller and outweighs Ward by 35 pounds. What I saw was the little guy beating up on the big guy “fair and square”.
October 20th, 2008 at 10:06 am
How do you break a guy’s jaw on a shoulder to shoulder hit? Watch it again and see how he leads with the helmet. Its time for suspensions not fines.
October 20th, 2008 at 10:09 am
Steve–
It’s true that anyone who chooses to play football is at least somewhat aware of the risks. But you could say the same thing about, say, driving, and I think everyone would agree that having some rules to promote safety is a good idea in that realm, too. And while many players do get compensated handsomely, there are an awful lot of guys making six figures — certainly a very nice salary, but not necessarily enough to cover a lifetime of astronomical medical bills in the event of a catastrophic injury (or even just several significant ones). Unfortunately, many of those players happen to be the guys on special teams, where some of the collisions can be scariest.
Since I’ve never followed MMA or boxing, I really can’t comment on those at all, and I don’t watch enough hockey to feel like I can state an informed and coherent opinion for about safety regulations should look like in the NHL, either. As for football, I think the overwhelming evidence on concussions shows that at the very least, helmet-to-helmet hits shouldn’t be tolerated.
Now, I’m not saying that anything fine-worthy happened on this particular play; I really couldn’t tell. And I’m not even suggesting that I have any sort of inarguable guidelines for what should be okay and what shouldn’t. But what I *am* saying is that trying to maintain some degree of safety for players is ABSOLUTELY a conversation worth having, and I couldn’t understand why another poster thought otherwise.
October 20th, 2008 at 10:17 am
Oops! It would appear that there are now two Steves, unless he’s radically changed his stance. My response was directed at the comment left at 9:20, not the one at 10:06.
October 20th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Where are the lines drawn without taking away from the essence of the sport? Thats just what I am saying. No doubt that the league should protect the players to the best of their abilities. I am all for better helmets and modifications to equipment that help reduce injuries as long as those modification do not significantly impact the players ability to play the game. I also am in favor of banning un necessary things like cut blocking, lauching urself and clearly leading with the helmet, and horsecollaring. But there is a fine line between that stuff and discouraging good hard hitting football. I think the NFL is starting to cross that fine line into a gray area where players cannot play the game the way it was meant to be played.
October 20th, 2008 at 10:39 am
If the Giants put that same “clean” hit on Big Ben next week after an interception and breaks his jaw will the comments still be the same? I’d say there would be quite an uproar then.
October 20th, 2008 at 10:48 am
By the way, I could be wrong, and I am in no way trying to blame Rivers for his injury, but I do not think that he was wearing one of those new helmets that are supposed to help prevent concussions. Those new helmets come down further on the jaw and protect the jaw a little more. Peyton Manning wears one if anyone knows what I am talking about. I wonder, in light of this happening, if that kind of helmet would have helped Rivers in this case. And if so, should that style of helment be mandatory? Again I am not trying to blame Rivers for not wearing a different helmet, just kinda following up on the players safety issue.
October 20th, 2008 at 10:50 am
In short Steve #2…yes my response will be the same, as long as it is the same kind of hit and not after the whistle or anything like that.
October 20th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Steve #1 — I don’t know where exactly the line should be drawn, but based on your brief comments here, I think we’d probably be in agreement about where it should be. But that wasn’t my point. My point was simply that it’s a GOOD thing to be talking about whether or not this sort of hit should be legal. Even if we decide that it should, the fact that there’s actual concern about player safety to motivate such a conversation isn’t “sad.”
October 20th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
The concern is definitly good and the conversation over this play is good I guess I just hope Ward dosn’t get penalized for this. By the way this blog is great and I tell every Steeler fan that have a conversation with about this site. The writers and the commenters…bravo.
October 20th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Helmet to helmet hits are dangerous and the league should work to siginficantly reduce them. That being said – they have not. WRs, TEs and RBs endure these every game (ask Ike Hilliard, although he probably won’t remember). Hines has been the victim of dozens of head to head blows received while he was focusing on a catch and defenseless. He routinely stands up, smiles and goes back to the huddle.
Keep in mind that ‘leading with the helmet’ is an illegal TACKLING technique, but not an illegal BLOCKING technique. Proper blocking technique requires the player to keep his head up, and contact the defender with his facemask, arms and shoulders. Watch a RB pass block a DE and you will see him hit him in the facemask with his helmet every single time (especially if the DE is bigger).
The league has set a whole new precedent in penalizing an offensive player in this regard. Have we seen anyone else fined for ‘aggressive blocking’ I can’t find one.
October 20th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Hines Ward should not be fined. That was a clean hit. It’s the NFL. It’s his job to block. How many times did Big Ben get hit, Mendenhall has a shoulder injury, has there been fines on the players who hit them. Ward is a good, clean player.
October 20th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
The hit was clean. There had to be contact if his jaw broke on the hit but you can see the impact on his shoulder before his head snaps. Shit happens, it’s football… it’s unfortunate that the jaw broke and turned an incredible hit into controversy but it was clean.
October 20th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
What I would like to know is if Keith Rivers was wearing a mouthpiece. If he wasn’t, his broken jaw & missing teeth could easily have come from the impact of hitting the ground, not from the supposed helmet to helmet hit. It looks like he led with his shoulder pads to me.
October 20th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Ward clearly led with his shoulder, but there was unintentional, sideways helmet/helmet contact. It’s obviously an accident and no cause for a penalty, fine or suspension. There’s a reason they wear helmets to begin with!!! Too bad for Rivers, though. Hope he heals well/soon.
October 20th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
P.S. I played in a lacrosse game in high school in which a player died after a legal hit (burst spleen). You can bet I still carry the guilt on behalf of my teammate who hit him. Football and lacrosse are both dangerous sports. You don’t go out there without knowing the possibility of serious injury.
October 20th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Salsbst-
you did??? Dang.
I’ve heard of lax balls hitting people and stopping their hearts….but somebody bursting a spleen due to a big hit? Man, I’d feel awful if I was the hitter.
October 20th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Yeah, it was a traumatic experience. Makes you think twice about contact sports when something like that happens. But I think all of us came back to the idea that it’s a risk you take when you take the field. My friend “the hitter” was devastated. Our team attended the memorial service at the school of the the young man who died, and we were treated very well by them, even in our mutual grief. Everyone needs to understand that injuries happen in contact sports.
But, to get back to the subject of the thread, shit fuckin’ happens! A clean hit can easily result in a broken jaw. Everyone needs to get over it. That was my original point, though I guess I buried the lead. Sorry for the extra drama, it just seems like things are a little out of perspective when people are whining about a broken jaw in a football game — the game is practically designed to pose at least the threat of injury. But, as I said in my original post, I hope Rivers heals well and quickly. And I hope the league realizes that they are managing a violent sport, and that injuries sometimes happen even without the need for penalties and fines.
October 20th, 2008 at 10:14 pm
I’m part of the Steeler Nation and “I” see helmet to face on that hit. Sorry, I don’t like dirty football.
October 21st, 2008 at 9:23 pm
Steve,
As you can see from media reporting, the NFL sided with my assessment that it was a clean hit and is not fining Hines Ward. Rivers was wearing a running back facemask, probably for the sake of fashion as many of the linebackers and linemen in the NFL and College football these days. Perhaps if he would have been wearing the longer (uglier) and less sexy lineman facemask, he would have been spared from his jaw injury.
October 22nd, 2008 at 2:26 am
I just read that Terrel Suggs called Hines’ shot dirty?!? The pot-kettle thing aside, Suggs’s a defensive player that deserves a cheap shot, . . . or a legal hit from Hines.
October 22nd, 2008 at 2:55 pm
hey jackass if he blocks someone down field every fucking play then how come he was standing all on the field all alone and turned back to hit rivers? his smiling ass wasnt blocking anyone on that play. 50 plays per game my ass
October 22nd, 2008 at 2:57 pm
and just to add….bensons truck stick on polamalu was 5x better……that bitch didnt no where the hell he was when he got up…..maybe if he cut taht gay hair of his we would of been able to see it coming