It is undoubtedly a very small group that would take Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger to lead their team instead of Peyton Manning of the Indianapolis Colts. But even if you do fall into that select group, there is a good chance that you won’t admit it.
After all, admitting such a thing publicly would only invite ridicule. If you live in southwestern Pennsylvania, as I do, you would be considered a homer to state such an opinion. Your credibility would immediately be attacked. You could be chastised, mocked, publicly humiliated, and perhaps even spat upon for considering such argument.
Yet, through it all, the facts are clearly on your side.
The following is a question-and-answer exchange I recently had with a Manning backer on this subject. Enjoy!
Manning Backer: You only want to talk about Ben having more rings up to this point. That doesn’t tell the whole story. Ben having more rings has nothing to do with him being better than Manning. Can’t you see this?
Dutch Wydo: Roethlisberger has one more Super Bowl victory up to this point because he out-performed Manning at Indianapolis in the 2005 playoffs. Roethlisberger came out throwing and put two early touchdowns on the board and staked his team to what turned out to be an insurmountable 14-point lead. That was the difference in the game and the reason why Ben has one more ring up to this point.
MB: Ok, How many rings do you think Manning would have if he was the quarterback of the Steelers this decade?
DW: Just one. I don’t believe he could have won a Super Bowl behind the current offensive line of the Steelers.
MB: Cmon! Don’t you see that Ben has been in a better situation in Pittsburgh?
DW: Incorrect. Roethlisberger won a Super Bowl with an undrafted free agent at running back. He was throwing to guys like Cedric Wilson and Antwaan Randle El. He even had a rookie tight end starting on that ‘05 team. This is hardly Edgerrin James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark.
MB: I’m sorry, but you need to consider everything. Just look at the stats. What do the stats tell you?
DW: I’m sorry, but maybe you have not considered everything. What if Roethlisberger had played his home games in a dome? Ben has played seven indoor games and boasts a passer rating of 113. He has 14 TD passes against only five interceptions. Roethlisberger has completed 68 percent of his throws indoors at a majestic 9.4 yards per attempt. Unfortunately, he is stuck playing at Heinz Field and has to endure mud, rain, snow, and wind, along with a revolving set of receivers throughout most of his career. Yeah, great situation! Now, let me ask you a question. If you take both quarterbacks and have to choose one to play a road game, which one would you take?
MB: I think the answer is obvious. I’m taking Manning, as he is superior.
DW: Really? What evidence do you have to support that? Roethlisberger has a 91.6 career road passer rating. Manning has a 91.6 career road passer rating. Your perception that Manning is so superior simply does not equal reality, my friend.
MB: You just don’t get it do you? Ben has had a great running game in place for most of his career.
DW: Edgerrin James rushed for more than 1,500 yards four times throughout his time with Manning and the Colts. Roethlisberger has never had a 1,500-yard running back.
MB: Defense, Defense, Defense, Dutch. Peyton would have won at least three Super Bowls with that Steeler defense. C’mon! Can’t you see this?
DW: In eight post season losses, Manning’s offense averaged just 13 points per game. As to how many points his offense scored in each loss, here is the list: 16, 17, 0, 14, 3, 18, 24, 17. Now ask yourself a question. Was his defense really the problem? Even in two playoff losses to the Patriots and Jaguars, Roethlisberger’s offense was able to put 29 and 27 points, respectively, on the scoreboard.
MB: So you are trying to say that Ben is the reason they won their playoff games?
DW: Roethlisberger has the highest postseason third-down passer rating of 121.5 last five years. Should I credit Dick LeBeau for that? Besides, before this postseason started, Roethlisberger had a better passer rating, more yards per attempt, and a higher completion percentage in the postseason than Manning. You clearly underrate Roethlisberger.
While I feel Ben is underrated, and should be considered an upper echelon QB. One defense for Manning is all QBs play better with a lead and worse when trailing. Since Ben has a better defense, his team more often plays with a lead or a close score.
Ok, Ben may have better stats than Peyton here or there, I think it's a stretch to downright claim that "Roethlisberger better than Manning"
I agree its real easy to take these stats that say "oh my he is so good!" Compared to manning lets take the whole picture approach. Manning can read defenses, Ben can't, Manning plays to gain yardage and win games, Ben plays to make the big play, Ben is all about himself nd what Ben can get out of it, manning is all about himself also but is willing to share for the teams benefit.
The original title was "I'm taking Roethlisberger over Manning." But the editor at the paper changed it to the one above.
Im a huge Steelers fan and I think Peyton is the best QB of all time. I do agree that he'd never last behind the Steelers line, but you build your team around your QB…
If Ben wasn't mobile I would guess the O line would've been addressed by now.
Otto Graham
Ben mobile haha when the guy is the biggest guy on the feild the only reson he is considered mobile is because the guy can take a hit from a d lineman so could i if i was 250lbs and for a guy that has the time in the pocket that he does he should have a damn good rating and the only reason that his o line has a bad rep is because his fat as* cant out run the line Peyton would dominate with the steelers o line defense and receivers guarenteed
Chris, may I ask you your age?
I love Ben as much as the next Steelers fan, but I don't see him as better than Manning. I'd rank him 3rd behind Manning and Brady.
And before you get into why Ben is better than Brady, remember that Brady had horrible receivers for most of his career too before the Pats went out and got Moss and Welker. Before that point, their biggest playmaker at receiver was Deion Branch. I'll take Hines Ward, Plaxico Burress or even Randle El over Branch any day.
Your argument is intriguing to be sure, but I just don't see it.
In 2004. Brady played awful in a regular season loss to the Steelers. Before the Championship game later that year, they said that Brady had Corey Dillon back (he was missing in the regular season loss at Pitt) in the lineup and that his presence will be the difference for Brady. It was. But years later everyone forgets that.
Personally I just can't get past spygate. For many more reasons than what is obvious. But I really don't want to get back into that discussion. As far as the Steelers WR's, Ben lost Burress and came back the following season and won a SB. He also led the league in yards per attempt. YOu see what happens to Eli, when he lost Burress. That was a big deal in my opinion. After Ward, Ben had a rookie TE, and a couple of below average WR's.
Corey Dillon had 74 yards and 1 TD on the ground, 1 reception 5 yards in the air in the '04 Championship. Brady threw for 207 yards and 2 TD. I wouldn't say Dillon was the difference in that game…I would say the difference was that Ben threw three picks in that game. In the regular season game, it was Brady who threw 2 picks, and the Steelers didn't turn it over at all.
It was the presence of Dillon that made all the difference for Brady.
The Steelers couldn't just key on Brady. It was a big deal.
Sometimes you have to say something out loud to yourself to check if it makes sense. Say Ben is better than Peyton out loud and you will the say – hmmm not so much. or Hell nah.
Brady had horrible receivers? Umm…Ben won a SB with Cedrick Wilson and Randle El, both of which are god awful.
Brady and Manning have had a far superior OL and far superior players on offense than Ben. When Manning gets to pick and choose who he wants on his team (1st rounders Dallas Clark, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Joseph Addai, Donald Brown), it's very unfair to judge Ben. How many first rounders does Ben have on offense? The recently aquired Mendenhall and Heath. Thats it. We saw how well Ben did in his rookie year with a LEGIT #1 receiver (no offense to Hines)
How is Hines Ward not a legit #1 receiver? He has a career 12.2 yards per reception average. For comparison's sake, the aforementioned Harrison (a similar receiver in that they're both possession guys, and somebody I doubt anyone could say was not a legit #1) had a career 13.2 average. Is that 1 Y/R the difference between legit #1 and not legit?
Furthermore, Marvin Harrison was selected before Peyton Manning was. Manning didn't get to "pick and choose" Harrison.
Oh, and Santonio Holmes was a first rounder too.
Oh and Santonio Holmes, who in reality is a #2 receiver.
Ben cares way too much about his own personal numbers for me to consider him a great player. He makes dumb decisions at times that cost the team while he looks for personal glory.
Truth be told I think most of the guys on the team don't like like him.
You make a good argument though. But manning forces carries his team. I don't think Manning would EVER be held to 6 points against the Cleveland Browns. That game alone caused me to lose tons of respect for Ben and any that I had for Arians.
Even in the disciplined world of the NFL particularly the Steelers organization eventually little myth's little rumors appear.
It seems the word from the fly's on the wall in the steeler locker room is dissension and annoyance with Big Ben.
My question is how often was bens success due to good playing and how many times just by fluke luck?
I personally hope nevada courts s their way with ben in court and the Pittsburgh steelers can move on without him———– to more wins and better "team" playing
Yeah, like all the Super Bowls they won in the 90s and early 00s before he came.
I don't understand the obsessive Roethlisberger hatred that some Steelers fans hold.
Ben's outlier season was a bad one, not a good one. He's turned in five good seasons and one not so good one. Considering the not so good one came after a huge motorcycle wreck, I think it's safe to say he's a good QB by this point.
Name your sources wild bill. who are the "flies" you have on the wall of the steeler locker room – or was it when you were swabbing their toilets that you overheard this dissension???
you're an obviously biased ben-hater – let's see some real facts and a cogent argument then maybe we'll take you seriously.
Ben's lifetime stats of: 63% completions, 8 yds/attempt, 91.7 passer rating, 60-27 regular season and 8-2 playoff records, 21 game-winning drives – those are all flukes?
and regarding his relationship with the team – did you see he and hines ward holding hands while AZ had their last possession in SB XLIII? see them jump up and hug each other after woodley's strip-sack to end the game??
i see dissension all over, don't you?
And you know that he cares way too much about his own personal numbers over the team's W/L?
Peyton Manning cares way too much about his own personal numbers for me to consider him a great player. He makes dumb decisions at the worst times in the super bowl that cost the team a super bowl while he looks for more products to push.
Manning was held to 14 points losing against the Chargers in the playoffs last, who had one of the worst defenses in the league. The same Chargers that the Steelers put 35 on and scored at will in the very next game.
Did you watch the Browns game? Ben's protection was terrible. He was sacked 5 times, none of which where he tried to extend the play. Just a complete failure in protection.
I think this argument may have added some more weight to it after that Super Bowl. Peyton certainly did not thrive down the stretch in the 4th quarter.
If one did want to argue in favor of Ben over Manning you could point out the Ben has been a much better qb IN THE BIG GAMES. During Manning's only Super Bowl run he was really very average and the Colts won with defense and their running game.
Peytons career numbers were not built in the playoffs, that is for sure.
Yep. In XLIII, the Steelers needed a TD, and Ben got them the TD. In XLIV, the Colts needed a TD, and Peyton threw a pick six. I'll take the guy who plays best when the game is on the line in big games.
Ben's stats are better than Mannings. (Rate stats are better, stats that correlate better to winning i.e Y/A)
Ben wins more games.
Ben wins more playoff games.
Ben 2. Peyton 1.
Peyton only wins in commercials. You guys need to step back and try to objectify your thoughts. Instead, you are simply going with your gut reaction which is Peyton is better than Ben. That is subjective. Try to use stats that correlate with wins and use W/L. Ben is better in both categories. Which means Ben is better.
OK, here's some stats to back it up:
Manning has the record for most TD passes in a season (2004 – 49 TD passes)
Manning led the league in net yards per attempt for two straight seasons – 2004 (8.7) and 2005 (7.8).
Manning led the league in adjusted net yards per attempt in three straight seasons – 2004 (9.8), 2005 (8.0) and 2006 (7.9).
Manning's most similar players, according to Pro Football Reference: Johnny Unitas, Steve Young, Roger Staubach, Joe Montana, Ken Anderson, Dan Fouts, Dan Marino, Randall Cunningham, Jim Kelly, Mark Brunell. (Though Roethlisberger does appear as the 10th most similar player through 3 years and 4 years.)
Roethlisberger has never led the league in any of those categories, and his lead on Manning in career Y/A (by 0.3 yards – hardly blowing him out of the water) is due to having a much smaller sample size. As such, his outlier seasons of 2004 and 2005 when he threw for 8.9 yards – almost a full yard better than his career average – is weighted much more heavily than Manning's outlier season of 9.2. Manning has played for twice as long as Ben. Adjust Ben's stats to 12 seasons, and Manning takes the lead in Y/A.
Oh, and just in case you're curious, Roethlisberger's most similar players according to Pro Football Reference: Eli Manning, Jay Fielder, David Garrard, David Carr, Eric Hipple, Scott Mitchell, Bill Nelson, Jake Delhomme, Carson Palmer, Tony Romo. Not exactly the Hall of Fame company that Manning is in.
There methodology makes no sense. It makes alot of assumptions and value teams that produce many possessions rather than teams that generate a few possessions. Quite frankly, it is worthless.
Personally I'd like to revisit this conversation in a few years.
Yo are happy to complain about Roethlisberger's stats being weighted by his short career, and yet all of the stats that make Manning great to you happened in his 6th year and on, which Ben hasn't even played yet.
I think that we can clearly say that Manning's Sucking/Playoff game ratio is well above Ben's though.
All of Manning's stats that make him great happened from his sixth year on?
He led the league in passing yards in his third season, set the record for passing yards by a rookie in his first season, and threw for at least 4000 yards from his 2nd to 7th seasons.
In his third season, he led the league in completions, yards and touchdown passes.
No, all the stats that make Manning great haven't happened from his 6th season on. He's done it his whole career. He just got better from his 6th season on. Roethlisberger has been a good QB with a few great years.
I'd love to revisit this conversation too, because I think by the time it's all said and done we'll remember Ben as one of the best to ever play the game. He's just not there today.
Read:
"and yet all of the stats that make Manning great to you happened in his 6th year and on"
Every stat you use in your "OK, here's some stats to back it up: " section happened from 2004 onwards. I am merely pointing that out, I wasn't suggesting those were the only stats in existence. Now you are happy to bring in earlier stats, good for you, but if they were so impressive I would have thought you would have used them previously to "back it up."
But where do all those great passing stats go when the playoffs start? If he is so good in the regular season they why is he so average in the playoffs? And don't tell me Ben has a better team around him. If Manning's team is good enough to 12+ games in the regular season then they are not good enough to win in the playoffs?
I am sorry but if Manning is the genius that the media makes him out to be then why is he .500 in the playoffs?
And don't blame the Colts defense. They have been above average since 2006 when the D and Colts run game keyed their ONLY championship.
Manning's career playoff numbers:
62.9% completion, 5164 yards (287 per game average), 28 TD, 19 INT, 7.46 yards per attempt, 3 rushing TD, 87.6 passer rating.
Roethlisberger's career playoff numbers:
61.9% completion, 2239 yards (224 per game average), 15 TD, 12 INT, 8.05 yards per attempt, 2 rushing TD, 87.2 passer rating.
Manning averages more passing yards per game played, but Roethlisberger averages more yards per pass. Manning is more accurate, has a better TD to INT ratio, and boasts a better career playoff passer rating than Roethlisberger.
The only thing that Roethlisberger has had more success at in the postseason is winning. But a look at the numbers shows that Manning edges him out in every passing related category, even in the postseason.
The whole "Manning disappears in the postseason" argument is a fabrication in the same way that the "A-Rod chokes in the postseason" argument is in baseball. It's only true if you take everything ESPN says at face value and don't bother to actually look at the stats.
Were the Colts' playoff losses Manning's fault? You could make that argument for some of them.
He played a bad game against the Jets in 2002, but the Jets also put up 41 points on the Colts' D. He had to make a bunch of risky deep throws just to try to keep his team in the game.
He definitely played badly in his 4-pick game against New England in 2004. He cost his team the game there.
The year they did win the Super Bowl, they seemed to do it in spite of him as he had 3 TDs to 7 INTs that year in the postseason (goes to show how much luck has to do with winning a single-elimination tourney.)
However, for the most part Manning plays a good game, even in Colts playoff losses. Maybe he's not the same godly QB he is in the regular season, but it's not like he suddenly turns into a pumpkin.
Could you say some of their losses in the postseason are Manning's fault? Sure, but you could say the same about Ben. He threw three picks in both of his playoff losses. Oops, not supposed to talk about that.
Oh, and in that Jets loss, New York dominated time of possession. They ran the ball 42 times in that game for 180 yards. Hard to lead your team to victory from the sidelines.
Nate
Ddi Peyton's offense never get that ball? The jets
didn't win 10-0 with 2 long 30 minute drives lol.
MAybe if Manning wasn't throwing to the other team 3 times
the Jets wouldn't have had the ball so much. Or Maybe if manning would have coverted a few 3rd down's the Jets wouldn't have had the ball so much. This is hilarious stuff. Didn't Miami Possess the ball for 40 mins against the colts this year and didn't the Colts offense still score about 30 points? Manning is a great regualr season QB who falls apart in post season. It is what it is.
Dagger, anyway you can get an edit feature here? I can't
type and I need the edit feature. lol
The Jets didn't win 10-0 at all. They won 41-0. They were up by 24-0 at the half. I don't know how long their drives were, because there aren't individual drive stats in the box score and my memory of individual games not involving my favorite team doesn't go back to 2003.
All I can say is that if the defense gives up 24 points in the first half, it's hard to pin the loss on the offense. When you have to come back from being behind like that, do you make short, accurate passes? No! You take risks and throw deep. You're more likely to get picked off that way. You're the only one I know who sees a 41-0 loss and says "Well, clearly that was the fault of the offense. They didn't score any points."
Nate
Manning plays 8 games in a dome and 3 divisional games down south.
That's a very big deal. Very big. I'll take Ben in the post season. Sorry.
Manning does not have much of a home/away split.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/M...
He's only very slightly worse when he's away from the dome.
Peyton and Ben have the same career passer rating on the road.
Peyton's rating nearly falls 10 points. Look at roethlisberger's home/road. It is basically the same number. Peyton is clearly helped by that dome. This is common sense.
Adjusted Y/A factor in counting statistics making them worth much less. It also factors in things beyond the QB's control. Albeit, so does Y/A. Just at a smaller rate. Touchdowns are a less flawed version of RBI's. Dependent on alot more than simply the QB's talent (most importantly, opportunity). Also in baseball woba correlates much better with winning than RBI's. Same with Y/A's and TD's.
.3 is a decent difference over a career.
I used Y/A, not AY/A. The AY/A is:
Manning: 7.04
Roethlisberger: 7.19
Agreed on TDs, but since most people here have trouble understanding something as simple as sample size bias, I thought I'd include stats everyone can understand, too.
What's clear: I'd rather have Manning's 19 picks over 18 games (1.05 per game average) than Roethlisberger's 12 over 10 games (1.20 per game average.) Even in the playoffs, where Ben is supposedly flawless and Manning is supposedly a choker, Manning is more mistake-free than Ben.
You might also look at attempts. Manny will have higher stats then Ben in yards because the Colts throw the ball constantly whereas Ben has been in an offense that was designed to run for several years.
However, it could be said that the reason the Colts throw so much is because Manning is that good. I don't argue his ability, and he probably is better than Ben generally. But, in the postseason, that difference isn't as large as the general perception of Ben and Manning would indicate.
Y/A and average Y/A are ratio stats; as such, attempts are irrelevant because it's yards per attempt. In those two categories, Ben trumps Manning slightly.
You could also say that because the Colts offense tends to rely more on short passes and the Steelers tend to go for a play-action and the deep/intermediate ball, Roethlisberger is likely to get more yards per attempt simply because he's attempting deeper passes. You just don't see Pittsburgh running short slants very often.
That said, you could also say that the only reason that Manning has a higher completion percentage is because he throws more short, quick, accurate, 2-3 step drop passes and lets someone like Reggie Wayne or Dallas Clark get yards after the catch.
And after all, accuracy isn't everything. Chad Pennington has a higher career completion percentage than both Manning and Roethlisberger, as well as Brady. I wouldn't call him a better QB than any of those three, though, and the biggest reason he has that high completion percentage is because he HAS to rely on short passes because he doesn't have enough of an arm to go very far downfield. Manning, Ben and Brady can all throw deep when they need to.
Things like this are probably why football hasn't had the type of stats revolution that baseball has. Baseball stats in terms of hitting and pitching are individual affairs with team elements. It's more easy to isolate pitching performance from good fielders than it is to isolate QB performance from a good offense or a different style of offensive system. Because of that, we can debate all day who's better. For my money, I think Manning is the better QB overall, but Ben is top 3 QB material, and there's nobody in the league (in my opinion) that would play better in Pittsburgh's offensive system.
One more thing: considering attempts actually lends credence to my argument that Manning is better at not making mistakes. He's had 414 more pass attempts in the postseason than Ben, but he still boasts less INTs per game played. If we make it INTs per attempt rather than per game played, the gap widens even more – .027 per attempt for Manning, .043 per attempt for Roethlisberger.
Nate, you are counting Ben's 5 Interceptions in the post season
that he threw as a rookie QB. You have to throw them out. You cannot penalize Ben for that. Besides, Bradshaw threw 5 Interceptions in 79,80 SB's and was MVP of both. The black mark against Manning is that his offense has only averaged 13.9 points per game in 9 losses.
I had forgotten about his rough first playoff run as a rookie. Those 5 picks do change his TD INT ratio and bring his much shorter career numbers down alot. Manning never made the playoffs until he had more of experience which no doubt helped his numbers.
1. Why do I have to throw out Ben's rookie INTs? He was the starting QB, was he not? Which means that, rookie or no, the team trusted him to be mistake free. I don't buy your argument. Rookie or not, he was in there to execute.
2. I'm willing to bet if I said that Peyton Manning led the league in interceptions (true story) during his rookie year, you wouldn't suggest we ignore that in our comparison.
3. Bradshaw played in a completely different era, when accuracy wasn't a big deal. You're comparing across eras, which is a huge mistake. It wasn't uncommon in the 70s for event he best QBs to throw a lot of picks. Bradshaw threw 25 of them in 1979 and didn't even lead the league. That would be nearly guaranteed to be the most INTs in the league in today's NFL. If you ask me, Bradshaw was one of the best QBs of all time, even though his numbers look mediocre now, because they were far above average for his time.
4. You can't blame everything on Manning for the offense. What about the running game? What about time of possession? Even when the Colts' defense improved, their run defense was still terrible until about 2008. Teams could rush on them all day and keep Manning off the field.
In playoff losses, the Colts have averaged 70 yards per game on the ground. They had a 100 yard rusher only once – Edgerrin James in 2000 against the Dolphins. There's more to an offense than just a QB, especially in some cases where the defense is so bad that that QB isn't even on the field.
Also, using only losses to get that average is fallacious cherry-picking.
Removing scores from defense and special teams (excluding field goals – most of the time, the offense sets up a field goal.), Peyton Manning's offense has averaged 22.4 points per game in the playoffs. Roethlisberger's has averaged 25. That's not so much of a difference.
Give Ben time to lose more playoff games, and his points per game in the losses will come down to earth as well. He's lucky to average more than 25 points a game in playoff losses when he's thrown 3 picks in each game. It's also a small sample size. It's unlikely he'll be able to continue putting up high offensive totals in losses.
Nate
Nate
Here is your cases against Ben.
1 Ben is lucky
2 Ben's numbers will crash in the future, just watch
3 Ben should be given little credit for getting his team to the playoffs as a rookie, but we should hold him in contempt forever for his 5 interceptions in the psotseason as a rookie passer.
I sure hope you can do better than this Nate. Please.
1. Ben is not lucky, he's a good QB. Ben is lucky that his offense can still put up big point totals when he throws 3 picks. Usually that leads to your offense not being on the field very often. Maybe it's because Ben has a good defense that can stop the other team after a turnover. More likely, it's an issue of sample size.
2. Not saying his numbers will crash, I'm saying they'll regress to something that's less other-wordly. Find me a QB with, say, 5+ playoff losses instead of 2 that has an offense that consistently puts up 27 points per game in losses. Doesn't have to be a current QB, either. Go through NFL history if you want to. I'm sure Ben will lose in the playoffs more than twice in his career. (If not, your case becomes much stronger.) When he does, his points totals in the losses will more than likely be lower than they currently are.
3. Please point out where I said Ben should be given little credit for getting his team to the playoffs as a rookie. I never said that. You're putting words in my mouth now.
What I AM saying is that he should also get the blame for being the reason they lost in the playoffs. What your argument boils down to is "give Ben a lot of credit for making it to the playoffs as a rookie. But throw out his mistakes. He's only a rookie, after all!" Bull. You need to look at the full spectrum.
A better comparison would be to compare their playoff wins and losses. Also looking at playoff numbers would help. Peyton Manning is a WAY better regular season QB but once the playoffs hit his numbers can't be much better than Bens and are probably worse. Isn't Ben like 7 and 2 in the playoffs whereas Manning is 9 and 9 now?
See my reply above.
Ben is 8-2 in the playoffs and I believe ranked in the top 5 of all time for best playoff winning percentage.
If you ask me who is the best QB in the league right now i say Manning. But if the question is who i want as my team's QB i say Tom Brady or Ben Roethlisberger and the question i ask you is "do you want to win your division and have the league's MVP or do you want to win Superbowls?". Manning is a hell of a QB but he just can't gei it done when it really matters, in the playoffs, that's clear to me. I don't give a damn about MVP, pass yards and rating in the regular season if the guy just can't do it again in the playoffs. Manning is a great QB but i just don't see he as a winner, something i can see in Big Ben and Brady. Stats are important but winning is what realy matters.
I like Ben and all, but sorry……he isn't better than Manning. Focusing on a playoff game in 2005 as the main pillar of this discussion is a weak attempt at best. There is a whole lot to be said about the value of intelligence at the QB position. And in that regard, Manning is Stephen Hawking and Ben is Gary the Retard. Ben makes far more stupid mistakes than Manning, and takes a ton more sacks that are his fault. And Super Bowl XL was won in spite of Ben, not because of him.
And the games leading up to SB XL? …you just conveniently forgot about those.
All of the playoff games the Colts won were pretty much in spite of Peyton as well. And look at his level of competition. Chiefs (shouldn't of made it), Ravensx2, Jets, and Bears lol.
Ben is clutch – Peyton is not. Who's better?